Graupner MC-28 4D Stick für Modellboot ?

[Brooklynite]

Hallo meine Herren,

Grüße von der anderen Seite des Atlantiks!  Ich habe eine Frage: Verwendet jemand Graupner MC 28 Mit 4D Sticks für Modellboote?  Irgendwelche Erfahrungen oder Ratschläge?  Ich bin im Begriff, diesen speziellen Funksender für mein Theodor Heuss SAR-Boot zu kaufen.

Mit Freundlischen Grußen,

Jerry 

[Brooklynite]

Hallo Leute,

Bevor ich 1000 Euro ausgebe, würde ich gerne festmachen von anderen Modellierern hören.  Ich möchte einen Funksender für die zukünftige Verwendung kaufen und Graupner 4D sticks scheint eine gute Idee für neue Antriebe zu sein - Schottel- oder Voith-Propeller.  Bin ich in dieser Frage richtig?

Bitte beraten...

Grüße,

Jerry 

[JL]

Hi Jerry,

seems you are using some kind of automatic translation so let's continue in English...
We had here (and I assume there is similar situation in other communities) quite often discussions about "what is the right Tx for me?", there is no one single answer. It depends of your background: If you are a friend of predefined solutions, companies like Graupner or Multiplex or good choices, if you are really willing to go deeper into the specifics of your favorite Tx I'd spend a look to FrSky. In a nutshell they do more or less all the same, but in different ways (in any case, to handle a modern computerized Tx with all its possibilities you need to read the manual carefully). The main differentiation I see in price: The FrSky is roughly half or a third in dollars compared to the other mentioned ones.

[Brooklynite]

Hallo JL,

Thanks for bailing me out! And thank you for taking time to reply to my message in English. Truly appreciated here. 

Yes , I agree with you - you made  a valid point here. Manuals are essential unfortunately in some cases are “lost in translation “ for instance my old MC24 English language manual was a joke. 
But that was over 20 years ago now fast forward to 2020. Do you have any experience with MC28 so called 4D Sticks? Dose it make sense to get that 4D option for boats? ( controlling Schott or Voith propulsion’s on tugboat  ) 

I am just curious... 

[JL]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Brooklynite:

...Do you have any experience with MC28 so called 4D Sticks...

Unfortunately not.
If I'd be forced to guess about usability I'd have some concerns due to having four functions in one stick on a more or less unstable platform (the Tx). I have some experience with a so called space mouse used for 3D drawing. This device has a similar functionality and I really appreciate that it sits on a stable platform (my desk) and allows me to support my arm on it so I can contrate on the movement.
On the other hand: Someone must have seen a benefit there (or why was it developed?) So I'm afraid that you really need to get your hands on it to make a sound decision.

Regarding manuals: I know some people call them obsolete but if you think a moment about what you are going to buy (a computer with a lot of specific software that controls your model), I'd make my decision dependend on support too, either by a well written manual and/or by an active community.

[Achim_LSG]

Bevor ich hier in englisch Blödsinn schreibe, hier mal wieder im germanischen ;-)
Die  4D Sticks sind eher für Funktionsmodelle an Land gedacht:

Trucks, Tanks, Pistenbullys, Baumaschinen, Landmaschinen
Meiner Meinung nach für Schiffsmodelle eher ungeeignet.

[Brooklynite]

Hallo and Guten Abend Leute, 
Meine Herrn, Achim , JL  

Vielen Dank für eine gute und überzeugende Erklärung. Achim, deine Überlegungen machen in der Tat Sinn.

Ich werde mich nach Robbe / Futaba oder nach JL-Ratschlägen um günstigere Optionen umsehen.  Vielleicht Frsky - aber ich habe nie etwas über diese Marke gehört. ( Ich möchte einen Funksender, der mindestens mehrere Jahre hält.)

Grüße,

Jerry ... von der anderen Seite des Atlantiks! 

[JL]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Brooklynite:

...Vielleicht Frsky - aber ich habe nie etwas über diese Marke gehört. ( Ich möchte einen Funksender, der mindestens mehrere Jahre hält.)...

Hi Jerry,
well FrSky has a quite good history in uograding their devices. All companies need to react on changes in regulation, so if I remember it correctly we have seen in the last 10 year 2 or 3 serious changes that send some devices to scrap. In that respect I 'd appreciate a modular concept whre you might be able to skip to next technology without abandoning the hardware. And, of course, something to a reasonable price, so that you can in the worst case afford to swith over to another set of hardware.
in case of FrSky the software running the computer (Tx) is open source and is developed by an quite active community. If you'd like to get a closer look to it there is a free Windows programm availabke (OpenTX companion) that simulates the various Tx-systems.

[Brooklynite]

Hallo JL and everyone, 

First Sorry for belated reply. As per your input and advise I went to look for some FrSky radio transmitters available on the market in US. Price ranges from $180 for X9D Plus to X10 Express for around $ 300 and X12 for $500 or so. Indeed 
it’s big variety for different people and budgets. For me question remains,  how reliable are they and how good Post purchase  service is. For me for instance “Service” is very important  factor beside price.  That’s why I am leaning towards reputable brand with superb service in US like Futaba. 

Sincerely,

Brooklynite 

[JL]

Hello Jerry,

with the service by FrSky itself I don't have experience, the original documentation is rather short, so I took most of my knowledge out of this very well done German manual (unfortunately you have to register there to get access). But I think looking for an English version might be more suitable to you, I haven't lookd for it yet, so I'm afraid I can't help further more in thsi respect. But there are other opportunities to get more information, e.g. OpenTX, OpenTX University, and maybe even more.
I think the community is quite active so it shouldn't be a problem to find someone to help you. Altough, please notice, most of members are active in flying not many in shipping.
A well known brand name is an idicator about service but no guarantee, it depends on people. Therefore the only hint I could give you is to look after more information in your region. For Germany I can state that you'll get help if you ask; we luckily have some companies that do it.

[BernhardB]

Hi,

I have a frsky (X-Lite) since some month myself and have the following impression:

• It has the best quality in the components / finish I ever had in hands (but I didn't have too many senders in hand before). Certainly better then the Graupner pistol-sender I have used for my racing-boats.
• It is quite more difficult to set up a model with this sender then with other senders - the software is more complecated. On the other hand You can do more with it including writing Your own scripts.
• Service? I don't know. For the software You will find many tutorials on the internet, also forums. For the hardware I didn't have any needs until now.

FrSky is in germany very wide spreaded at the drone flyers. As far as I know they are there nearly standard.

 

Hope this helps...

[Ralph Cornell]

Hello Jerry!
It all depends on what you want. If you want plug and play, a brand transmitter is what you need, including Graupner.
If you like to experiment and want to open up your own features, a FrSky is the right choice. You can be pretty sure that all the quirks that the system may have are between your ears ...
A member of our community even converted one (or more) of his ships into a drone. It drives to waypoints independently, checks its position via GPS, corrects its course, compensates for drift and sends telemetric data. He uses FrSky.
That would be nothing to me. I don't need a toy that plays alone, I want to play and control it myself.

[BernhardB]

Yes, I agree fully. From the quality, I think Graupner as well as FrSky are very qood standards - from the philosophy they are quite on opposite corners: Graupner provides high quality, simple usability paired with a perfect customer service in the past (as long as graupner germany existed). We will see how the last point evolves in the future. The price for this is a closed-source system where You get to the limits if You want to do something out of the normal. In the contrary to this, You can extend Frsky to a level far beyond Graupner: You can access the bus systems on the receiver side for example with an arduino, You can program the sender with lua,... But: That isn't easy, You will definitly not plug the receiver in the model and all works like magic.

 

An other question to concider is the design: How ergonomic is the sender? Can You reach all switches easily? Have You all the switches You need? Here helps only a good look at the pictures if You don't know someone which can lent You the transmitter. To get back to the original toppic: I don't know if any other company then Graupner has such 4D-knobs... 

[JL]

Hi all,

one thing not to forget: The price tag. And that's a big plus for FrSky - but as already mentioned you probably need a little bit more time to set the first model up, you really need to get used to the "philosophy" of the system.

[Ümminger Kapitän]

If you don´t need the 4D Sticks, I would go for a MC26, as it is nearly the same, exapt the hall sensors for the gimbals.
Some minor experiance I have with the 28 4D. It is difficult to configure a function to the knobs as the hall sensors are imho too sensitive.
I´ve supported a mate with assigning functions to the knobs and I don´t know how often, it was assigned to the stick, even horizontal or vertical.
Even really careful touching the knob, it was assigned to everywhere but not to the 4D knob.

[Brooklynite]

Meine  Herren, ich möchte Ihnen allen dafür danken, dass Sie die Zeit gefunden haben, meine Fragen zu beantworten.  Es gab viele interessante und nachdenkliche Leute.  Dieses Forum ist wirklich gut und hilfreich - besonders für Neulinge wie mich.  Das schlug BernhardB  vor, es wäre am besten, einen Modellbauer mit einem Frskay-Sender zu finden und es selbst auszuprobieren.

( Tut mir leid, dass ich mich manchmal in der Übersetzung verlaufen habe. )

Mit Freundlischen Grüßen,

Jerry aus Amerika